An Interview with Conductor Osmo Vänskä, by Gary Lemco
I spoke to conductor Osmo Vänskä on Sunday, August 2 2020, via Zoom, given his invitation to “visit” him in Seoul, Korea, where he endures the quarantine imposed each time he visits with his Seoul Philharmonic, which he leads as a complement to his service with his Minnesota Symphony Orchestra.
“It’s a really good time for an interview,” proffered Vänskä, “since my wife and I remain confined, and there are many hours in the day.”
Gary Lemco: “Maestro, I want, first, to thank you for this opportunity. Next, congratulations on the developments regarding the management issues with the Minnesota Orchestra – the lockout, the open hostility of individuals Michael Hanson, Jon Campbell, and Richard Davis – and the unequivocal support of the musicians, city fathers and the public to retain you and their beloved orchestra. The “farewell” you gave, via the Sibelius Valse triste proved immensely moving, given its theme of ‘death,” and your sensitive reading outdid my own, personal interpretation choice with Hans Rosbaud.”
Osmo Vänskä: “It’s good and a relief to have impediments removed. The ‘business’ of music can be a distraction from the actual work we must do.”
GL: “I only just reviewed your new release of the Mahler Seventh Symphony, which appears at Audiophile Audition Review, of Mahler’s 7th by Vänskä. This is a complex work…”
OV: “Yes, the music of Mahler has commanded my attention, and the Seventh has that curious admixture of emotional elements; you know, the sudden shifts of temperament and levels of intensity. I am quite happy what the BIS people do with our recordings, and I particularly trust my recording engineer, Robert Suff. I feel I can leave the session early, not even having auditioned the final product and rely on his judgment that we have a finished product.”
GL: It’s somewhat ironic, speaking of Mahler interpretation on record, that the First Symphony had its initiation on Columbia through the Minneapolis Symphony under Dimitri Mitropoulos.”
Osmo Vänskä, Sept 2017
by August Schwerdfeger
OV “Yes, I am aware. There is a bust of Maestro Mitropoulos at the Center who overlooks all that I do. I can see the shining, bald head looking at me, passing favorable judgment, I hope.”
GL: “I wanted to pose a question in my mind regarding Sibelius, obviously a composer dear to you. In the various, purported cycles by various conductors, why is it that the Symphony No. 3 suffers neglect? Karajan, for instance, who ranked himself among the great Sibelius acolytes, avoided the C Major.”
OV: “There can be many reasons a conductor fails to complete a proposed cycle, not all of them musical. Time management can be an issue. The encroachments of duties beyond the studio. But, for the C Major, there are in fact stylistic changes in Sibelius’ approach. A new classicism enters his style; it’s not like the Romantic urgency in the first two symphonies. I would not call it ‘chaste,’ but it fits in with the neo-Classical temperament of the times in which it appeared. To this end, the fact that both my orchestras, the Minnesota and the Seoul, have learned to listen to each, other member of the respective ensembles as they play, making the ‘chamber music’ experience of the music more palpable. Thus, my chosen repertory, like the Sibelius Seventh, becomes more intimate, more personal.”
GL: “You have a video, a You Tube project, where the two ensembles cooperate.”
OV: “Yes, we collaborate, through a special video hook-up, in the ‘Nimrod’ section of the Enigma Variations of Elgar. Much work, but the effect becomes quite special. The Seoul players are before me, while the Minnesota personnel play from their homes.”
GL: “A pity about Sibelius’ departure from creative work, his virtual shutdown after the 1930s.”
OV: “No, that is a mis-conception. Sibelius continued to write, judiciously and obstinately. But he felt these new scores – possibly an Eighth Symphony – fell below the standard he had demanded of himself. He either suppressed or burned those compositions he did not respect.”
GL: “Something like Dukas or Brahms. . .”
OV: “I think as a conductor who composes – or vice versa – you becomes severely critical, and your perspective, or your confidence, can suffer.“
GL: “On the subject of conductors who compose, you, first of all, were a classmate of Esa-Pekka Salonen, who now leads the Los Angeles Philharmonic and has found time to compose a number of major works, like his concertos for piano and cello. I am no less aware of your own composition The Bridge.”
OV: “That was a commemorative piece for the victims of the collapse of the riverfront bridge, the 35W Bridge. But I took the commission as a chance to express a larger metaphor for the ‘bridges’ that people use to connect to others. By the way, what is your opinion of Salonen’s scores that you’ve heard?”
GL: “Well, they are extremely ‘busy,’ meaning there are plenty of opportunities for virtually every player in the various ensembles to show off. Lots of activity in the brass, the timpani, the strings, and winds; of course, he writes for the virtuosos who play his individual concertos. But – no melodies! Just rhythmic kernels and riffs, either short or extended, motion and commotion. It’s for me an assemblage of effects and colors, vibrant sometimes, motoric and compelling, sometimes. But whistle me a Salonen melody. The opposite circumstance happens with someone like Busoni: with him you get a surfeit of melodies piled atop one another like a Medieval motet, but the whole makes no favorable impression.”
OV: “I might counter with the example of his Op. 39 Piano Concerto, but its sheer size and ungainliness prevents many performances. A male choir has to sit around, waiting for their entry. The piece is massive, sort of in the shadow of Beethoven. . . “
GL: “You mean the curious Chorale Fantasy of Beethoven?”
OV: “Indeed. But composing has taught me to appreciate virtually any composer, good or bad, for the sheer effort involved. The concentration of energy, the focus, to try to communicate every feeling and gesture within ‘symbolic’ means.”
GL: “I can respect that impulse to express oneself in music. But the post-Milton Babbitt mentality, the minimalists, the twitterings and the squeaks, do they speak to people? My old teacher, Phil Friedheim, used to pose a scenario between Mozart and say, John Cage, and Mozart queries Cage or Babbitt or Xenakis, to whom will people listen in one hundred years, you or me?”
OV: “In my opinion, all of the objections you have raised seem to have their source in the rise of the computer. The computer both as a model of efficient response and as a source for original ‘creation,’ if you will. Like some amazing chef, the computer can turn out a plethora of notes and programmed impulses in a way that defies – and awes – human reactions. Every creation of this ‘master chef’ is a ‘master-piece,’ in its own terms.”
GL: “Even if it has no heart.”
OV: “Chalk it up to the spirit of innovation and experiment. If a great dinner – or a great child, if you prefer that analogy – emerges from the program, so much the better.”
GL: “You remind me of Mitropoulos’ old quip about his being a conductor: a conductor must be a kind of prostitute and give himself to all kinds of music.”
OV: “Harsh, a bit cynical, but well said.”
GL: “You’ve certainly explored this connection of composer-conductor: you’ve led music by Finnish conductor Robert Kajanus; obviously, Mahler has to be among the most harassed composer, given the demands of the Vienna Opera and the New York Philharmonic. . .Mitropoulos, Furtwaengler, and Walter, too, devoted themselves to composing.”
OV: “Well, maybe a virtue of this imposed isolation and quarantine will be to allow for more creative reflection.”
GL: “And what of your leisure time beyond conducting? Reading, for instance?”
OV: “The quiet imposed upon me, not to mention the demands of conducting, have me turning back to my original instrument, the clarinet. My wife and I play duets, for instance. I had been a co-principal in the Helsinki Philharmonic.”
GL: “I have to assume you took on the Nielsen Clarinet Concerto.”
OV: “Ha! I tried and practiced and tried, but I simply could not master its difficulties.”
GL: “I had the privilege of having been invited to the world premiere, in 1977, of the Corigliano Clarinet Concerto, given by Stanley Drucker with Leonard Bernstein. It made quite a sensation.”
OV: “It’s a daunting, big piece, quite a project to mount. But you asked about my reading: I have found some philosophical solace in a book by Henry Emmons, The Chemistry of Joy. This is a kind of guide to self-reflection and physical as well as psychical awareness.”
GL: “Well, ok; for Bruno Walter it was Rudolf Steiner. I can give Mr. Emmons a look. Maestro, it’s been a real pleasure, a genuine privilege, to speak with you. I might wish, with your permission, to recommend what I would love to hear and own with your leading the Minnesota Orchestra, like a complete Ma Vlast – there is no Minnesota document of such – or a complete cycle of the Dvorak symphonies.”
OV: “You are now among several people who have suggested Dvorak to me. Let me say, it’s been an interesting chat.”
